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From Aleksandr to everyone в 13:51, 10/08/08 Reply | Reply in new thread | Edit

Introduction This is my personal attempt to describe the situation about a Georgian conflict from a Russian citizen’s point of view, without any politic interests… and just from a human point of view. Some history In USSR, the Georgian Republic included Abkhazia and South Ossetia. In 1990-1991, both currently unrecognized provinces declared autonomous status as a part of USSR (CIS). So people of these provinces decided to be independent from Georgian Republic. In 1991, USSR was divided into several absolutely independent countries. And Georgia with others declared independence. But its former provinces Abkhazia and South Ossetia didn’t want to be part of new Georgia country and decided to go their own way. This is the start point of conflict. Several times and in different ways (military and peaceful) Georgia tried to re-join ex-provinces, but without success. At that time, there was no Balkan precedent, and Abkhazia and South Ossetia stayed unrecognized by the world till today. Please, understand, that it was almost 18 years ago, children of those days have grown up in those provinces and they have NEVER lived in Georgia. Mikhail Saakashvili Was born on 21 December 1967 in Tbilisi, Georgia. Till 1991 he grew up and was educated in the USSR, then moved to the US where he studied and worked for a while. In 1995 he returned to Georgia and started his political career as a deputy of parliament. On 23 November of 2003, with Zurab Gvania and Nino Burganadze overthrew the president Eduard Shevarnadze and on 04 january 2004 was elected as the new Georgian president with 96.27% of votes. On 25 November of 2005 resigned his post after dispersal of opposition march, which caused 508 people hospitalized. On prescheduled elections on 05 January 2005 he won again, but this time with 53.47% of votes. (Author note: this election is questionable indeed, because a lot of opposition protests and my friends in Georgia told me that that election really "smelled bad") His politics were headed towards NATO and the EU. Also extreme militarization! The military budget of Georgia grew up to 30% of the country’s budget. And there was a huge help from the US and some other countries with free weaponry, money and trainings support (Author note: as for me, there isn’t such thing as free weaponry support. Only if supportive side, has it’s own interest.) Relations with neighboring countries became the worst ever after MS came in charge. Current conflict Sides: - Georgia: legitimate country of Kaukaz, population 4.646.003, Georgian citizens - South Ossetia: unrecognized country, former Georgian province, population 72.000, Russian citizens (they never been in Georgia, and kept USSR and than Russian passports, so de-facto they are Russian citizens) - Abkhasia: unrecognized country, former Georgian province, population 250.000, Russian citizens. The same story as in South Ossetia. Facts: - On 07 august 2008 Mikhail Saakashvili declares his wish for dialog and that Georgia is not planning any military activity in region. - In the late evening of the same day, Russian peacekeepers resided in the region got a warning from Georgian side about starting military operation against South Ossetia. - Immediately, in the very night 07-08 august 2008 Georgian forces started a full scale military operation against Tskhinvali (capital of South Ossetia region) using tanks, artillery, aviation and land forces. (Author note: as for me, politicians always lie, more or less. It’s their job. But such thing I can recall only from WWII and Hitler attack on USSR in the night and in despite of all peace agreements) - In the 08 august 2008 attack on Tskhinvali continues, also incoming first reports about attacking positions of Russian peacekeepers and first looses on Russian side. - In the 08 august 2008 Russia brings about 150 armored units and some ground forces on territory of South Ossetia (which is not part of Georgia, so can’t be counted as an invasion) to protect civilians and Russian peacekeepers. - At the time Russian forces reached Tskhinvali, city was already in ruins. Before conflict it was a city with 35000 population, so you can imagine civilians causalities. At the moment declared 2000 of civilians killed by Georgian attack. But there a lot more people in the building ruins. - Currently it’s a fighting for Tskhinvali ruins and surrounding area. - There is information that Russian Air forces bombarded Georgian military objects: airport, military base and the sea port. - Black Sea Russian fleet regrouping, preparing a blockade of Georgia. - Georgia increase military forces on border with Abkhasia. - Abkhasia strikes on gathering Georgian forces near its border with artillery and aviation support and prepares for war. - Georgian president declares state of war, which allows him to control and censor press, and mobilize all men in the country. - All Russian TV channels and internet segment are blocked from Georgia. Western press The most things I can see in western, mostly US press, is a pro-Georgian position. And words about Russian invaders in Georgia and killing Georgia civilians! That’s a lie. As I wrote before, politicians lie, but sometimes it’s a pleasure to see how they do it. It’s like a piece of art. But… Saakashvili lies like a little child, who broke his parents vase and doesn’t want to be punished. Now he is asking for help, he is crying that he did nothing, but "evil Russians" killing Georgians people. But this is a lie. Saakashvili giving interviews to CNN and BBC sitting near EU flag (why ???) and saying a clear bullshit about Russian tanks in Georgia. Damn lie. Georgian propaganda issues photos of civilian causalities in Georgia. Yes, war is really bad thing, and unfortunately I guess there are such causalities. But why there are same people in different clothes in different places acting different victims of "civil blocks bombardments" ? And how about thousands of dead South Ossetians? And where are reports of CNN and BBC correspondents from ruined Tskhinvali ? And why most interviews are coming from Georgian side? Free speech indeed! My interpretation of facts What is going in Ossetia is a war. It’s doesn’t matter that officially it’s called conflict or whatever, but when military forces of the country killing thousands of people and using artillery and aircrafts – it’s war. Independence. I don’t understand what is the difference between Ossetia, Abkhazia and Kosovo. And why can’t they be recognized as countries? Situation is absolutely the same. Including all US remarks about Kosovo. War costs money. A lot of money. And I’m really in doubt that Georgia could afford war with two ex-provinces, populated with Russian citizens. So when some guy on CNN with a clever face saying that "process in Georgia is not something paid from US or other countries, but natural process of moving to democracy process", I’m laughing… Every country MUST protect their citizens. Especially when there are 70000 citizens are under full scale military attack. So Russia is just doing it’s job on this. Saakashvili is a military criminal, who has involved his own people to the unnecessary war and washing brains of young Georgians with ‘killing Russian pigs’. Check public forums, look what they writing. Western politicians offer to deal with Saakashvili to cease fire. But how can you deal with a man, who breaks his own words few hours later ??? My opinion I like Georgian people, and my girlfriend is Georgian. I think that war is really bad thing for people. I blame Saakashvili for betraying his own people, and blame those who staying behind him. I blame those, who are in the battlefield and showing their dark sides by killing innocent people (it’s not all soldiers, most of them do what they ordered, but some of them are really bastards). There are always such people on any side and in any war. I blame those, who is lying and using double standards in same situations in favor of their own political or financial interests. I think that any "unrecognized" country, which lived for 18 years separately, deserved to choose its own way. Postscriptum All information in this post has been taken from open sources: news posts of different agencies and wikipedia. P.S. As usual, thanks Pete for my English corrections. P.P.S. Please, send this page address to your friends outside the Russia, to provide them other point of view than they see on TV channels. Thanks.

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From Peter to Aleksandr в 17:32, 10/08/08 Reply | Reply in new thread | Edit

Thanks Aleksandr for giving us (the 'average' people of this world) an opinion of what is happening in this world that isn't necessarily the opinion of the mass media! I am from Australia... and I want to know what is REALLY happening around the world... not just what the Elite want us to know OR THINK! So PLEASE keep informing us to what you know... and your friends know... from first hand account if possible! :0

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From Peter to Peter в 15:01, 14/08/08 Reply | Reply in new thread | Edit

I receive emails from a site that offers THE TRUTH .... or at least an alternative perspective (usually the TRUTH considering the media is owned by those who control/or seek to control the world economy). Check out these sites if you care or dare!!!! Why Russia's Response to Georgia was Right By Sergei Lavrov For some of those witnessing the fighting in the Caucasus over the past few days, the narrative is straightforward and easy. The plucky republic of Georgia, with just a few million citizens, was attacked by its giant eastern neighbour, Russia. Add to this all the stereotypes of the cold war era, and you are presented with a truly David and Goliath interpretation - with all its accompanying connotations of good and evil. While this version of events is being written in much of the western media, the facts present a different picture. Putin Walks into a Trap By Mike Whitney The Georgian army had no chance of winning a war with Russia or any intention of occupying the territory they captured. The real aim was to lure the Russian army into a trap. OH! AND HERE'S ANOTHER ONE!!!! Will American Insouciance Destroy the World? By Paul Craig Roberts The neoconned Bush Regime and the Israeli-occupied American media are heading the innocent world toward nuclear war. GUESS WHAT??? IN THE SAME EMAIL I GOT INTO THESE SITES... Russian tanks pressed deeper into Georgia: Russian tanks rolled into the strategic Georgian city of Gori on Wednesday then pressed deeper into Georgia territory, smashing an EU-brokered truce designed to end six-day conflict that has uprooted 100,000 people and scarred the Georgian landscape. AND ...PROJECT GEORGIA! Russia: US must choose Moscow or 'project Georgia': Russia's foreign minister said on Wednesday the United States had to choose between partnership with Moscow and the Georgian leadership which he described as a "virtual project.",7340,L-3582207,00.html Oh well! I guess my name and ISP is already on some CIA list... but who gives a shit!!! If we say nothing for fear of being targeted by certain organisations we play straight into their hands... they want us to be afraid to speak out as to what is really happening!

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